On April 17, while I was travelling in Crimea (where I remain), I received an email from National Post weekly columnist Adam Zivo. In his email, Adam requested an interview, stating “I\’m writing about the Green Party\’s Ukraine policy and am interested in learning more about your trip to Russia – how it came about, what your goals are, how you manage the ethics of visiting an autocracy that jails dissidents, etc.. This piece would be for the National Post.”
According to the National Post website:
Adam Zivo is a freelance writer and weekly columnist at National Post. He is best known for his coverage of the war in Ukraine, as well as for founding and directing LoveisLoveisLove, a Canadian LGBTQ advocacy campaign. Zivo’s work has appeared in the Washington Examiner, Jerusalem Post, Ottawa Citizen, The Diplomat, Xtra Magazine, LGBTQ Nation, IN Magazine, Quillette, and the Daily Hive, among other publications.
Ever since 2016, when I was the justice critic in the Green Party of Canada shadow cabinet and advocated for the Green Party to support the BDS movement, the National Post and its affiliated newspapers in the right-wing, pro-Israel, Postmedia empire have published one biased piece after another about my human rights advocacy and my work as an activist.
Accordingly, I responded to Adam’s request as follows:
I’ll be blunt with you Adam. I have zero confidence in the National Post to publish a balanced and objective article about why I came to Russia, but I am willing to do an interview on one condition: you must consent to me recording the entire interview. If you agree to that, then I will do it.
To his credit, Adam agreed in advance that I could record the interview and publish the recording, if I was inclined to do so.
To be clear, under Canadian law, I was not obliged to obtain Adam’s consent to my recording of the interview, but I sought his consent anyways, because I didn’t want him to feel as though I had blind-sided him by secretly making, and then publishing, a recording of our conversation.
Yesterday (April 19), Adam and I spoke via zoom for about 90 minutes. Below I have posted the audio recording of the complete interview. To call it an ‘interview’ is somewhat misleading. It ended up being much more of a debate than an interview.
The way I approached this ‘interview’ was informed by my many unpleasant experiences with the corporate media. Those experiences have taught me a few hard lessons, including:
- Never assume that the interviewer will fairly present your views to the interviewer’s audience;
- Take every opportunity to clarify and reaffirm your position;
- When you are asked a question that is based on a false or misleading premise, always challenge the premise of the question before answering the question; and
- Do not wait for the interviewer to give you an opportunity to challenge a false or misleading premise, because the interviewer might not give you that opportunity, and usually won’t.
Again, to Adam’s credit, he did not prevent me from answering his questions when I insisted that I be afforded an opportunity to explain my position fully.
Whether Adam will write a balanced article about our conversation is, however, an open question.
Nonetheless, Adam and I had a wide-ranging and spirited debate that explored the potential for nuclear war, censorship and disinformation, Neo-Nazism in Ukraine, Western and Russian imperialism, Islamophobia, Canada’s genocide against Indigenous persons, and my current relationship (or lack thereof) with the Green Party of Canada.
Our complete conversation can be listened to here:
Wow!!! Dimitri….you must keep this up – It’s absolutely fantastic!!! …exactly what’s needed! (And just in time!) Your are making Adam (and the whole western media cess-pool) sound precisely like the shit-smearing, money-grubbing liars they are. …the totally complicit voices of the festering neocon element that has dominated the US political scene – and spread via NATO throughout the west – no matter who happened to be in the White House.
……and you hit the nail right on the head about Nord Stream – the incredible lie that will fill a chapter in every history book to come!
Bravo!!!
Pete Kirby.
Mont Tremblant, QC
I second that commotion.
I third
I first listened to your interview with Aidan on the Canada files. From that I searched out this interview. .. Well, What luck it is to have recorded such an interview. I think this interview should be deposited into text books to teach how to debate. If there was one word to describe the Interview / debate I would choose, ” obliterate”. Although I was impressed at the decorum that they both maintained, (although the passion could not be fully hidden from Dimitri) the fact is that you (Demitri) not only defended every point of view, every stance, every challange, did not only school this guy on debating by calling out strawmen tactics, etc. but also exposed so many tabo realities of western imperialism, and especially…. western media. yeah baby. nailed it.
I second that comment!
If journalism schools weren’t embedded with empire I’d recommend this interview to every j-school in the country for its expose of a card carrying member of the Canadian establishment press.
It jumps to my attention how often in Adam’s language collective terms like “everyone”, “widely” or the use of passive forms such as “is considered” etc. I think that shed’s a lot of light on his psychology and thinking process and what’s behind the voices that join the chorus of mainstream media parroting official positions – be it in the west or east. Need for acceptance or safety, societal identification, and of course, status and reward.
A brilliantly illuminating “discussion” marred by technical difficulties and Mr Zivo’s apparent lack of knowledge of history.
I would look forward to reading his article based on this interview/discussion but it will doubtless be behind a paywall as an exclusive missive to that small percentage of Canadians who actually pay to read Post Media,tax deductible, propaganda.
Wonderful debate, though I’m guessing Adam regretted making the call. Now he’s in the unenvious position of battling his managers to produce anything approaching a balanced story, or the equally unenvious position of publishing a biased hit piece. Clearly, it’s not a good moment to be a journalist employed by a main street media publication.
Give me the information from both sides, and I’ll determine which narrative fits with available evidence the best. I don’t like being treated like I need to be spoon-fed information. Bandara filled that valley Baba Yar with tens of thousands of dead bodies, Adam is clueless.
After the coup, the Donbass regions held a referendum for independence (they would have settled for federalism), it wasn’t until the Ukrainian military attacked that they became pro Russian. All of eastern Ukraine has been under military occupation since 2014. Porochenko, Merkel, and Hollande have all admitted that Minsk was just a ruse to buy time to build up forces, Putin is the only one that wanted peace.
Very interesting conversation.
Tuques Not Tanks!
This is such a perfect capture of The Master and The Emissary dichotomy (presented by Iain MacGilchrist) – of how moral immaturity and left brain hyper-focus runs the world, in absence of true appreciation for the larger deeper context of everything everywhere, and in so doing utterly threatens our future.
Sorry, but why do you focus so much time on Bandera, he’s a side note, his their hero (Lincoln was genocidal against natives, we can’t base ourselves only on who we idolize & overlook they dark sides), but more fundamental than that is all the nazi/SS symbology/ uniform stickers/ flags/ the training of hundreds of thousands of militia (Azov, Adiar, …) PRIOR to RU operation (it’s not an occupation because Ukr is an occupier – Ukr hasn’t declared official border to UN/ Int/ comm.- it has lands from the eastern republics, also Belorussia, Poland, Romania, Russia). These militia display all the manicured perfectionism of the SS/ nazis, in uniform, marching in the streets/ rallies, youth training camps, and NATIONALISM, they all speak of N in purifying ways, they say they don’t want russophones, orthodox churches/ worship; they’ve this fantasy of joining the EU & NATO, and what they deem to be a modern superior version of humans. – Guevara was Fidel’s Himmler, I grew up w. him as hero, but he did become psychotic once he was already in the sick of the revolution, he did send his men to execute, he executed himself people thy would fight in the forests of Cuba, without due process, once could argue that’s a choice a combatant has to make in battle, in guerrilla, but then, he became the chief of Fidel’s detention camps (they were not death camps or fee forced slave camps serving corporations like in GE) where many dissenters were tortured, executed. Guevara & Fidel are mini version of bigger dictators/ radical revolutionaries. I don’t deny Fidel’s somewhat purer version of totalitarians, by never living in excessive luxury himself, developing education & medicine/ science against all odds! – Returning to Ukr. Another important point which is essential on how RU views Ukr’s nazism is the absolutely proven, consummated CIA/ NATO supported fascist COUP of 2014, which was assisted, orchestrated with McCain, Biden, Nulland, Romney, Kerry, on separate trips from 2012-14 – there’s evidence we’re already arming & training those militia in camps, youth camps, and we assisted the coup against a DEMOCRATIC moderate Yanukovic (because he worked with RU, he was not joining NATO which is a threat to RU, and breaking w. numerous treaties & accords since 1998), the radical right wing party took over, Sloboda; there was an interim gov, and then Poroshenko took over by “election”; so where’s the research! Sorry, but … When he speaks of Ukrainians having the town destroyed, that’s when we bring up the 14K the sloboda regime was imposing on the eastern republics, there was a civil war for 8 yrs, ethnic cleansing, 14K civilians dead, hospital, schools, towns being destroyed … Ok .. I’m hearing that you finally brought it up around min. 1:35:00, but so lightly, that should have been the whole focus where you discuss so much about Bandera & RU’s past casualties of war … It’s obvious he’s partial, but he sort of caught you in your bias too and you were strong to discuss those details. True Putin believes they’re the same nation/ people, and till OUR interference in WWII & last few decades, most Ukrs would speak similarly. But that should be brought up as the fact that Putin didn’t want to destroy Ukr, didn’t want to kill their brothers … I don’t mean to be only negative, I appreciate your passion, 😀 I feel your concerns, I’ve them; (Nord Stream was blown up by NATO through Norway … We’ve used pipelines many times as excuse, we did it in 2 previous wars – I’m still listening) .. I’ll have to stop and listen to the rest later …
Sorry, I meant more or less in the middle.. about min 40 I think …
Bravo Dimitri! Your eloquence is flabbergasting…It was obvious since the beginning of the interview that you were looking for truth, like Gramsci did (in opposition of Adam Zero (sic))….
Bravo Dimitri! Your eloquence is flabbergasting…It was obvious since the beginning of the interview that you were looking for truth, like Gramsci did (in opposition of Adam Zero (sic))….
Your exceptional ability Dimitri to uncover the truth and present it with clarity and integrity is truly commendable. As a leading Canadian investigative reporter (they are a rarity!), you play a vital role in holding power accountable and shedding much more light on this important issue. Your dedication and tenacity are an inspiration to us all.
Yep, you were correct. The article printed in the National Post smeared you “six ways from Sunday”
Is it possible that the National Post to post a transcript of this interview
Lol
Yes, Fiorito. However, of the 5 comment, 2 are irrelevant 1 liners. Another defends Dimitri. The other two recommend that people listen to the full audio posted above. So, I’d call that a shoddy and failed hit-piece.
As for Mr Lascaris’ behaviour in the interview, he displays the patience of Job as he calmly exposes Adam for the programmed lackey his is.
Thank you Dimitri. I know this has cost you so much,in so many ways, yet you persevere to dig up the truth in trying to find a way to stop this war before it stops us all.
I can’t say how much I appreciate your knowledge, research, thoughtfulness, passion, patience, (what have I missed?) in all your commentaries. This exchange of ideas particularly highlights the entrenched positions that we are up against.
It was hard to keep listening after Adam suggested that it was the Russians who somehow managed to elevate the status of Bandera. Then a really stupid question: Does the celebration of John A. MAcDonald mean that Canadian is a genocidal state! Also, about Che, who was a man living at a time when homosexuality was still illegal in many Western countries including Canada, where it was considered a mental illness until the early 1970s. Any attempt to trap Dimitri was ill-advised and also futile. And I think it is Zivo who has the problem with “black and white” analysis. Obe One and Darth Vader is as black and white as you want. I really don’t think Zivo can think logically. He only wishes to have his own opinions confirmed. And the anti-Putin protests from 2011 were NED-backed of course. His “OK” is a tic. Showing uncertainty? Very hard to get Zivo to make any sort of “genuine effort.” Oh, dear… “9/11″…! Zivo can’t keep up with Dimitri, try as he might. It’s not fair. All he can do is mischaracterize bits and pieces of Putin’s speech(es). He gets everything to date, back to front. Russia bad. That’s all he has. And such projection. It is just unacceptable for Zivo to go against anything to do with US responsibility. It’s as if the US is not involved. Going from the individual experience (the Russian-speaker who went to Kyiv and hadn’t never seen or heard of nazis) to the common experience with no further proof. That’s a technique. The man hasn’t got a leg left to stand on. “He was not the “servant of the people.” Nice one Dimitri! “Expansionary Russian wars.” The very foundation of western propaganda (NED)…
Zivo is more and more off the mark as the interview ends… Thanks for bothering Dimitri, but franchement, this unbelievably ill-informed Western journalist has nothing much to contribute. But it’s good. Venceremos!
Owen Hughes. I like your line , to Dimitri, “thanks for bothering” They tried to smear him but he came prepared and it backfired. The interview exposed many truths
I listened to Dimitri’s recordings and also looked at the article by Adam Zivo in the NATIONAL POST. It really turned out the way Dimitri expected – Zivo wrote smear campaign on Dimitri. Not one positive word only lies and manipulative negative stuff. Up until recently I always wondered how was it possible that the whole German nation believed in those Arian nationalistic BS. How was it possible that not only the criminal and crazy German SS committed criminal acts or war crimes but the German Wehrmacht as well. Perfectly normal soldiers and officers went and killed thousands of innocent Russian and Jewish civilians, raped and slaughtered Children, Women and Men. When I look at how the Western Media has changed in the last 20 plus years – how the Western propaganda machine is aimed at manipulating Western Citizens and how our Western politicians (especially the Politicians from the Green Party that has become a War- and Anti-Economy Party) lie on a daily basis – I slowly begin to understand that it is happening again!!!